IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 10 December 2013
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: David Banas
Julia Liu
Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy
ANSYS: Samuel Mertens
Dan Dvorscak
Curtis Clark
Steve Pytel
Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
* Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
IBM: Greg Edlund
Intel: * Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari
Hassan Rafat
Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: * Randy Wolff
* Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
Ray Anderson
The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- Arpad: Reminder that we have one more meeting then a two week break.
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Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Walter send updated presentation to Mike for posting
- Done
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New Discussion:
Package Modeling:
- Walter showed a new Package Modeling presentation.
- slide 1:
- Walter: I gave a quick review in the open forum meeting last week.
- slide 7:
- Walter: My recommendation is Yes for #1, Touchstone without circuit wrappers.
- Arpad: The question is if we want to take the time to write it up.
- Walter recommended Yes for all options under #2.
- Walter: #2.1 Identifying I/O ports by Signal_Name is optional.
- #2.2 works because having one port for the PDN model should suffice.
- Arpad: This is for when a complete pin list is not available?
- Walter: It is for simplified low frequency power delivery circuits, for example.
- Walter: #2.3 would be to simplify modeling all DQ signals, for example.
- Brad: Is #3 two ports?
- Walter: It can be any number.
- Brad: This begins to allow for arbitrary circuits - where do we stop?
- Walter: This probably is the most controversial.
- IC vendors may like this capability.
- Bob: We already have this capability though model instantiation.
- Walter: With 128 DQ or SerDes pins do we want 128 instances in the package model?
- John: This is like swathing, which can get nasty when coupling is involved.
- Walter: We should get input from IC vendors on how they deliver coupled models.
- Bob: For #2.3 Corner Format could be used.
- Walter: Typ/Min/Max in IBIS is different from AMI Corner.
- Michael M: We should have the ability to use more than 3 corners.
- Walter: We need to answer these question to evaluate any syntax.
- slide 8:
- Walter: Some work will be needed to "include" just a portion of a file.
- Arpad: Wouldn't that be up to EDA vendors?
- Walter: IC vendors have to know how to make portable models.
- Radek: I agree with Arpad that it is an implementation issue.
- Tools will be able to find the right subckt.
- Walter: Port naming and ordering must be resolved.
- Mike L: Will we need something like Supporting_Files?
- Walter: No, it is possible to find out all the files that will be needed.
- Bob: Does "Model File Name" involve IBIS models or just IBIS-ISS?
- Walter: This is for IBIS-ISS and Touchstone only.
- Michael M: Can we find out if a Touchstone file has the appropriate ports?
- At least with a wrapper that is known.
- Walter described TS1 and TS2 differences
- Michael M: If we go with unwrapped Touchstone we will have to define ports.
- Walter: An S element could have 6, 7, or 12 nodes.
- But in all cases it has 6 terminals.
- Brad: There are always 7 nodes, the 7th is implicit.
- When I have 100+N ports in my data, how to wrap it?
- Walter: For uncoupled simulations it can be broken into many small subckts.
- It can be advantageous to use sNps directly.
- Brad: Yes, but maybe not for the arbitrary case.
- Radek: We discussed this for BIRD 144 some time ago.
- Unused ports were an issue.
- The IBIS-ISS wrapper takes care of that.
- Brad: Wrappers would be better than rules.
- slide 7:
- Walter: This suggests that #2.1.1 would be a No and #2.3.1 would be Sometimes.
- Radek: It would be more clear to say No.
- Michael M: We would want to have certain parameters with arbitrary corners, not all.
- Walter changed some decisions to "take the easy way out".
AR: Walter send updated Package Modeling slides to Mike for posting
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Next meeting: 17 December 2013 12:00pm PT
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives